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楼主 |
发表于 31-8-2015 12:56 AM
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PSM 一直以來都要用自己的旗幟
308 是註冊問題，用 PSM 旗幟違法，無可奈何
505 是民聯威脅 PSM。寧願把議席拱手讓給 BN 也不會給 PSM 用自己旗幟。但 PSM 還是在一些地方用了自己的旗幟
下屆不可能用民聯旗幟
problem？
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楼主 |
发表于 31-8-2015 12:59 AM
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要醬拿技術問題來玩
很多跳去BN的青蛙也只是 support BN 的「獨立議員」，和 BN 合作嗟
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发表于 31-8-2015 01:03 AM
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本帖最后由 Ecor1 于 31-8-2015 01:06 AM 编辑
除了注册问题，也是可以用民联的影响力，让更多人认识PSM
所以为什么要合作
这个就是策略
根本没有违背原则。
但是后来民联逼PSM，甚至可以让PSM输掉议席
这个就已经违反原则
所以就分开
所以有什么问题？
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发表于 31-8-2015 01:04 AM
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技術問題？
都说了合作与青蛙很大分别
行动党与回教党合作，就代表行动党做青蛙跳去回教党？
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楼主 |
发表于 31-8-2015 01:06 AM
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发表于 31-8-2015 01:06 AM
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制度上的改革少不了巩固法治。参与盗窃1MDB财富的所有共犯都不能放过。
问题是国阵议员中还有几个没接受过纳吉的贿款？
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发表于 31-8-2015 01:12 AM
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本帖最后由 Ecor1 于 31-8-2015 01:15 AM 编辑
可以说全部都有，但是如果老虎打不到，与其饿死，有兔子你吃不吃？
回教党当初加入民联，大家都知道他会要搞回教国，为什么还是可以合作？
就是为了避免多角战，这种策略证明了空前的成功
但是民联胜利就代表国家好？不是的
而是大马的民主幼期二线制开始成形了。。。这个就是制度上的进步
所以和回教党合作有什么问题？？
全部都是策略而已。没有违反原则，甚至带来更好的改变。
有了大方向，细节的东西可以等大方向成立了才慢慢改进。
这个就是策略。
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楼主 |
发表于 31-8-2015 01:16 AM
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1. 就有支持國陣的「獨立議員」沒有換黨籍去民聯，所以他們不是青蛙了？「是」就還人家清白
2. 不信任動議過後，30名國陣議員如果要和新民聯組聯合政府，也不可能呆在國陣裏面，只能以「獨立議員」的身份support新民聯的首相人選，如果這個不算青蛙，那就還衆青蛙一個清白，謝謝
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发表于 31-8-2015 01:26 AM
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本帖最后由 Ecor1 于 31-8-2015 01:29 AM 编辑
没有换黨籍就去民聯，当然是青蛙
青蛙就是违背了原则，因为违背了选民的委托
所以要跳槽不是问题，需要辞职后补选就可以了。
bersih要求的是过度政府，就是暂时性质，不是永久的
这个过度政府，除了是为了要满足巫统自己的要求轰纳吉下台，最重要就是落实bersih提出的十項體制改革，
然后在第十四屆大選各党派在更公平与干净的选举制度下自由競爭
我看不出有什么青蛙的问题。
就如有国难的时候也是有这种过度政府的存在，如突然有病毒袭击，大马人民死完一半，国会议员也死很多，过度政府就可以发挥作用，行动党可以做卫生部长，公正党可以做内政部长。。。等等。。。根本不是什么青蛙的问题。等问题解决了，就来多一次大选，让没有死的人可以参与竞选，重新选一次。
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发表于 31-8-2015 01:29 AM
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当初民联成立时，三党的协议是回教党可以提出回教国的理念，行动党也可以提出反对成立回教国的意愿。总之就是先把事情搁下不谈，直到时机有转变为止，不损原则。
但是，如果在野党要和国阵议员合作，那么在野党究竟要：
1）改变反贪污腐败的原则，将这些议员收贿款的事情视而不见，还是
2）改变遵守诺言的原则，先暂时骗他们和他们合作夺权，将来有机会治他们的罪？
我从来不相信任何人可以妥协原则的细节来完成大方向。要是为了使用策略而让原则偏了，那么达到的目的也是偏的。
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楼主 |
发表于 31-8-2015 01:31 AM
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你有沒有發現你在語無倫次？
請你再看一次你寫的東西 make sense 嗎？
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发表于 31-8-2015 01:34 AM
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Provisional government is an emergency or interim government set up when a political void has been created by the collapse of a very large government. The early provisional governments were created to prepare for the return of royal rule. Irregularly convened assemblies during the English Revolution, such as Confederate Ireland (1641–49), were described as "provisional". The practice of using "provisional government" as part of a formal name can be traced to Talleyrand's government in France in 1814. The numerous provisional governments during the Revolutions of 1848 gave the word its modern meaning: A liberal government established to prepare for elections. The most notable provisional government was the Russian Provisional Government in 1917
Provisional governments are generally appointed and tend to arise in association with or in the aftermath of civil or foreign wars. In a time of crisis a collapsed government may reform with provisional status under a coalition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_government
Provisional government不是青蛙党员组成的政府。
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发表于 31-8-2015 01:43 AM
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本帖最后由 Ecor1 于 31-8-2015 01:52 AM 编辑
回教党可以提出回教国的理念？
这个我不确定，懒惰去看他们的签署，据我所知是三党合作不是为了要成立回教国
我记得是要建立民主国家。
但是，如果在野党要和国阵议员合作，那么在野党究竟要：
1）改变反贪污腐败的原则，将这些议员收贿款的事情视而不见，还是
2）改变遵守诺言的原则，先暂时骗他们和他们合作夺权，将来有机会治他们的罪？
我觉得这个就是有妥协了
为什么有妥协就是当现实不能满足你的原则的时候你就需要有谈判然后有妥协。
好像如果国阵议员说，你们答应不追究我以前贪污的钱，我就全力去支持成立独立的反贪委员会，这个委员会是独立的而且只是向国会负责，就如香港的ICAC
如果是你民联议员你会如何？
1）马上拒绝。但是接下来，你要如何成立独立的反贪委员会？竞选赢的大选？如果不可能赢的话，你怎么办？搞革命？国人打算要付出这种代价没有？还是继续奋斗多50年，慢慢教育群众？
2）接受，成立了独立的反贪委员会，放过这个几个大贪官，然后向前望，希望大马在20年就可以超越新加坡，成为一个经济强国。
给你选，你会如何选？
我觉得选一，或是选二，的都没有错。
不过选第一的代价就很大，看你要不要博而已
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楼主 |
发表于 31-8-2015 01:44 AM
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Examples of provisional governments active in the 20th and 21st centuries are:
- 1901 caretaker government of Australia, established pending the first election to the newly established Commonwealth of Australia.
- Provisional Government of the Republic of China (1912), established after the success of the Wuchang uprising.
- Provisional Government of the Republic of China (1937–40), etablished by the Empire of Japan when invading Eastern China.
- Provisional Government of Western Thrace (1913), established in modern Greece in opposition to annexation by Bulgaria during the Second Balkan War.
- Provisional Government of Northern Epirus (1914), established against annexation to Albania.
- Provisional Government of India (1915), established in Kabul.
- Republic of Van (1915), established in Western Armenia.
- Provisional Government of the Irish Republic (1916), a title adopted by the leadership of the short-lived Easter Rising.
- Provisional Government of National Defence (northern Greece), 1916
- Russian Provisional Government (1917), established as a result of the February Revolution which led to abdication of power by Tsar Nicholas II.
- Estonian Provisional Government (1918-1919)
- Latvian Provisional Government (1918-1920)
- Ukrainian Provisional Government (1918).
- Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea (1919), established in exile based in Shanghai, China and later in Chongqing, during the Japanese occupation of Korea.
- Provisional Government of the Irish Free State (1922), established by agreement between the British government and Irish revolutionaries, in order to pave the way for the establishment of the Irish Free State in the same year.
- Provisional Government of Lithuania (1941), established when Lithuanians overthrew the Soviet occupation during the Lithuanian 1941 independence. It functioned briefly until Nazi Germany annexed the country.
- Provisional Government of Free India (1943-1945), established by Indian nationalists in southeast Asia, had nominal sovereignty over Axis controlled Indian territories, and had diplomatic relationships with nine countries.
- Provisional Government of Italy (1944)
- Provisional Government of Hungary (1944-1945)
- Flensburg Government (1945) a short lived provisional Government of Nazi Germany following Adolf Hitler's death in the Battle of Berlin
- French Committee of National Liberation (Comité Français de Libération Nationale, CFLN) (1943–44), set up in Algiers, then a part of metropolitan France.
- Provisional Government of the French Republic (GPRF) (1944–46), government of the provisional Republic until the establishment of the IVth Republic.
- Provisional government of Israel (1948–49), established after Israel's declaration of independence and in place until after the first Knesset elections.
- Provisional Government of the Syrian Arab Republic (1949), established by national consensus to draft a new constitution and reintroduce civilian rule after a series of military governments.
- Provisional Government of the Algerian Republic (1958–62) (guerrilla movement)
- Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Vietnam (1969-1976), established during the Vietnam War against America and Republic of Vietnam
- Provisional Government of the People's Republic of Bangladesh (1970-1972), established after the declaration of freedom of Bengalis exiled to Calcutta.
- Interim Government of Iran (1979), a provisional government established after the Iranian Revolution
- Government of National Understanding, established in Czechoslovakia after the Velvet Revolution of 1989.
- Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization (1988-), after it was entrusted with the powers and responsibilities of the Provisional Government of the State of Palestine.[1][2]
- Palestinian National Authority (1994-), the administrative organization, established to govern parts of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, following the Oslo Accords.[3]
- Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq (2003-2004), established to act as a caretaker administration in Iraq following the 2003 invasion of Iraq pending the adoption of a permanent constitution and until the creation of a democratically elected civilian government.
- National Transitional Council of Libya formed during the 2011 civil war in Libya against the Gaddafi-led government.
- A provisional government was established in Yemen (2015-) after the 2014–15 Yemeni coup d'état.
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发表于 31-8-2015 01:49 AM
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历史上来说都是国家有重大事情发生的时候就有这个临时政府
不过也是可以用在大马的情况的
纳吉被轰下台，纳吉应该不会那么容易妥协的，肯定是乱糟糟
成立一个临时政府，处理一切事物，然后确保制度的确立，以便以后不会发生同样的问题
不过这个策略是有点理想化，不过不试过，没有人懂。
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楼主 |
发表于 31-8-2015 01:57 AM
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Provisional governments are generally appointed and tend to arise in association with or in the aftermath of civil or foreign wars. In a time of crisis a collapsed government may reform with provisional status under a coalition.
可能
1. Bersih 文人忘記吃藥，神經錯亂，語無倫次
2. Bersih 文人想搞內戰
3. Bersih 文人當馬來西亞的人都是白癡來忽悠
4. Bersih 文人開玩笑嗟，不要醬認真
呵呵
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发表于 31-8-2015 02:00 AM
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aftermath of civil =民事争夺的后果
不一定是内战。
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楼主 |
发表于 31-8-2015 02:02 AM
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aftermath of civil or foreign wars
哇佬歐洲人的英文比我這個酒鬼pariah還要爛？你不是吧。。。
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发表于 31-8-2015 02:05 AM
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应该是我看错
这个定义比较准确
An interim government is frequently organized following a revolution or sudden death, when there has not been time to nominate, designate, or elect a government formally.
首相被轰下台，群龙无首，可以成立过渡政府，等事情解决后才举行大选。
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楼主 |
发表于 31-8-2015 02:17 AM
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